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I will beg to disagree with you Pivan23. Looking at your analysis, it lacks a lot of things. It does not clearly illustrate the differences on the two product sets you have here. Thus, it does not clearly demonstrate which product provides a better value for your money as you forgot to take into consideration other plans found within each set of products. There is a flaw in the analysis you made.
Let me explain:
First, here is what you did:
You compared upgrading from Plan 899 to Plan 999. You then compared that when you upgrade from Plan 999 to Plan 1499. Thus, you get the following:
Plan 899 to Plan 999
Speed: non-SOD: 256 kbps SOD: 308 kbps
Cost: 100 Php
You then compared that to upgrading from Plan 999 to Plan 1499.
Speed: non-SOD and SOD: 512 kbps
Cost: 500 Php
You argue: Why pay 1499 for adding 512kbps for Plan 1.5, then state that the marketing scheme here is greedy.
What went wrong here? You failed to take into account the costing done when you upgrade within the product set. What do I mean? You did not take into account the costing when you upgrade from Plan 899 to Plan 1699 as compared to Plan 999 when you upgrade to Plan 1499. Please note that when I say effective costing, this is on the side of the subscriber. Effective costing on the side of the company is totally different. Pricing schemes are not done on a whimsical basis but rather there is an actuarial science that is involved. Further, your argumentation failed to take into account the factors that come into play in terms of how a company comes up with its product pricing. Although I do not expect you to know that, to claim however, that one company is greedy without justification is a little off key and very inappropriate. Remember he who claims a fact, must indubitably prove it.
Let me illustrate:
Let us first compare the equivalent Plans:
*figures indicate the increase in speed when the upgrade is done
a) Plan 899 to Plan 999
Speed: non-SOD: 256 kbps non-SOD: 307 kbps
Cost: 100 pesos
This is where your argument stem from: the cost of upgrading from Plan 899 to Plan 999 is just 100 pesos. This effectively prices 256 kbps at 100 pesos thus you argue that we should only be paying 1199 (999 + 200; to get an additional 512 kbps) for Plan 1.5 mbps instead of adding 500 when we upgrade from Plan 999 to Plan 1499. Is this correct? It is actually wrong. Why? Business is business. You have to take into account the other plans that will be affected by the change in the Plans. Remember, a company is not a charity. Thus costing must be balanced and should be favorable for both the subscriber and the company. This is where your analysis is now found to be wanting. Please read on and you will understand what I mean.
WE know the difference between Plan 899 and Plan 999 already. Let us compare the equivalent Plans in the old set with their counterparts in the new set.
b) Plan 1699 and Plan 1499
Speed: non SOD: 307 kbps SOD: 512 kbps
Cost: -200 (which means Plan 1499 is cheaper by 200 compared to Plan 1699)
c) Plan 1999 is actually a new Plan. It does not have a direct equivalent.
d) Plan 2699 and Plan 2599
Speed: the same.
Cost: -100 (which means, Plan 2599 is cheaper by 100 for the same speed).
Comparing the two, clearly Bayan loses money from subscribers who are on Plan 1699 as they stand to lose 200 pesos when these subscribers upgrade to Plan 1499. Is that being greedy? Clearly, when a subscriber on Plan 1699 upgrades his plan to Plan 1499, he gains in speed and saves 200 a month. So again, is that being greedy? You can say that the company gains 500 from upgrading from Plan 999 to Plan 1499. True, however, if we do not take into account the costing of upgrades in the old set as compared to the new set, then we stand to lose site of what is really going on. Remember that Plan 899 is being retained because there are those that demand it (I am not sure of this though since from what I know, if you subscribe now, the lowest residential plan you can get is Plan 999). However, if we are to look the costing of upgrades in the new plan then you will say that Bayan just made their products more competitive and value laden in terms of costing.
Since you are talking of upgrades, let us compare the costing when an upgrade is done in each of the set of products. Please take note that you cannot upgrade from the new Plans to the old plans.
a) Plan 899 to Plan 1699
Speed: non SOD: 460 kbps, SOD: 308 kbps
Cost: 800 pesos
b) Plan 1699 to Plan 2699
Speed: non-SOD: 1332 SOD: 1024 (please note that Plan 2699 does not have SOD. Speed here was indicated to see the difference when Plan 1699 is in SOD)
Cost: 1000 pesos (effective cost: 1 pesos per kbps upgraded)
In the new set of Plans, upgrading from a lower level Plan to the next upper plan will just cost you 500 and with a 512 kbps increase.
Let us compare the upgrade sets and see the difference.
In the old plans, when you upgrade from Plan 899 to Plan 1699, you get a max of 460 kbps upgrade in speed during non SOD, and 307 during SOD and that will cost you 800 pesos, whose effective cost is roughly 1.74 pesos per kbps added. When you upgrade from Plan 999 to Plan 1499, you just add 500 pesos and you get an additonal 512 kbps in speed, the effective costing 0.98 pesos per kbps additional. Thus, upgrading from Plan 999 to Plan 1499 is cheaper in the new product set as compared to the first one, where 1.74 pesos (Plan 899 to Plan 1699) is definitely more expensive compared to 0.98 pesos (Plan 999 to Plan 1499).
In the old Plan, to get 2560 kbps (2.5 mbps) you need to pay an additional of 1000 pesos, which means you upgrade from Plan 1699 to Plan 2699, whose effective costing is 0.98 pesos per kbps additional. However, in the new set of Plans, you can easily get 2560 kbps (2.5 mbps) during SOD at half the cost with the new plan in place: Plan 1999. Upgrading from Plan 1499 to Plan 1999 adds 512 kbps to your non-SOD speed and SOD speed, thus you now have 2048 kbps during non-SOD and 2560 kbps during SOD, while the cost is just 500 pesos, the effective costing being at 0.98 pesos. Upgrading from Plan 1499 to Plan 2599 will make you add 1100 and effective costing is now at 1.07 pesos. However, this is again balanced by the fact that subscribers on Plan 2699 are now paying 2599. And also getting Bayan's current highest speed becomes more affordable now with the addition of a new Plan (Plan 1999) which was not previously offered. Plan 2599 after all is meant for those who need an all day 2560 kbps (if the bandwidth is available) connection. In terms of affordability, the new set of Plans are far more within reach compared to the old Plans.
So in the final analysis, is BayanDSL being greedy here? Again I will go back to the concept of Business is Business and the costing must be evened out, or the company will not be able to provide a good DSL service.
True, upgrading from Plan 899 to Plan 999 will just cost you 100 pesos with an added speed of 256 kbps (the effective costing of which is 0.39 pesos). And yes, upgrading from Plan 999 to 1499 will cost you 500 pesos with an added speed here being at 512 kbps. The argument: why pay 500 for 512 when 256 kbps can be gotten by just adding 100 pesos? Should it not be that we should just add 200 pesos instead? Can we correctly say here that BayanDSL is now greedy because of the "absurd" increase in the upgrade cost?
The answer is NO. As I have demonstrated earlier, there are savings generated for the subscriber when they are on higher plans when they move from one plan to another. Coming from Plan 1699 to Plan 1499, the subscriber saves 200 pesos. Subscribers on Plan 2699 will save 100 pesos when upgrading from Plan 2699 to Plan 2599. If we are to compute all the costs incurred here by BayanDSL, it is just 300 pesos. BayanDSL stands to lose 300 pesos on the subscribers who are on Plan 1699 and Plan 2699 switching over to the new Plans. One will still argue that it is just evened out as Pivan23 is arguing that the effective cost of upgrading from one plan to another should only be 100 pesos per 256 kbps. However, we are also forgetting one very important aspect here. In the past, we do not have any choice but to shell out an additional 1000 pesos if we want to the highest speed. In the new set of Plans, however, we can get the highest speed during SOD by merely adding 500 pesos. Thus with the addition of a new plan, BayanDSL stands to lose 500 pesos for everyone upgrading to Plan 1999, as compared to when there is no Plan 1999 and the next upgrade will be 2599. Please note also that with Plan 1999, the possible consequence for Plan 2599 is that more people might prefer Plan 1999 as most people are out during the day and thus would definitely not need 2560 kbps as they are out working. It will be in the evening that the need for 2560 kbps will be most apparent and thus Plan 1999 will be more attractive. Plan 2599 however, is still there as there are people who may need for such speeds throughout the day thus the service is retained.
The new plans as compared to the old plans are more affordable and provides more value for one's money. They are cheaper in most respects as I will illustrate:
Effective costing of the old and new plans at NON SOD:
Plan 899 - 768 kbps, 1.17 pesos per kbps
Plan 1699 - 1228 kbps, 1.38 pesos per kbps
Plan 2699 - 2560, 1.05 pesos per kbps
Plan 999 - 1024 kbps, 0.97 pesos per kbps
Plan 1499 - 1536 kbps, 0.98 pesos per kbps
Plan 1999 - 2048 kbps, 0.98 pesos per kbps
Plan 2599 - 2560 kbps, 1.02 pesos per kbps
If you look at the costing, the new plans are far more affordable compared to the new one. If BayanDSL is greedy, then why lower the cost per kbps (aside from the market trend of lowering prices for competitiveness? The new set of plans clearly makes having a higher speed affordable (again as compared to the competition), and adds more choices for the subscribers to avail of compared to the old set of products.
To say that since the upgrade cost from Plan 899 to Plan 999 is just 100 pesos and thus immediately assume that the immediate cost of 256 kbps is 100 pesos, and thus therefore claim that the company is being absurd and greedy since the upgrade cost from Plan 999 to Plan 1499 is 500 pesos would be inappropriate also since we do not take into consideration what the company is giving up in the process in terms of the other plans that has been upgraded. Remember, Bayan did not only increased the speeds and prices of its plans, it also lowered the prices for some of its plans. As compared to the old plans, the new ones are far more affordable compared to the older ones.
To say also that the following pricing scheme should have been implemented following Pivan23's argument of 100 pesos per 256 kbps would be absurd:
1024 kbps, 999
1536 kbps, 1,199
2048 kbps, 1,399
2560 kbps, 1,599
Why do I say that it would be absurd to have such a pricing scheme based on the argumentation of Pivan23? Pivan23 failed to take into account the overhead expenses a company must pay for in delivering the service. The math in determining the price of products is not just based on mere whims. Rather there is an actuarial science that determines the appropriate pricing taking into consideration the actual overhead that the company must pay in order to deliver such services efficiently. One cannot argue, however, that such overhead expenses must be solely shouldered by the company as that would lead them to bankruptcy also. It is in the law that certain overhead expenses may be passed on to the customer if this is in line with the delivery of service that the customer is paying for. Thus, if we are to simply equate that the costing of people having Plan 899 and Plan 999 is the same as those that use Plan 1499 and the upper plans, and thus make the pricing per 256 kbps constant as the speed increases, then we fail to take into account the necessary overhead expenditures that company pays for in order to deliver such higher services. All these are factored in the final price of the product. For those of you who are familiar with actuarial math, you will understand what I mean. Actuarial Math is not only applied in Insurance but also in many pricing of other products other than insurance. We have to remember that the pricing of products affects the finances of a company.
Let me illustrate one very good example of how an ISP's expenditure goes up as the speed goes up also:
Comparing Plan 999 with 1499 and the upper plans, Plan 999 at 1024 kbps, there will be more subscribers that can be accommodated since the DSL signal can travel further as compared to Plan 2599 where there is a distance restriction already due to the speed. This is the reason why subscribers are qualified based on the distance of the nearest facility to their home as routed by the cabling design going to his home and the plan he intends to get or to subscribe to. The further he is, the lower is the speed. The higher he wants the speed, the nearer he should be to the facility. This opportunity cost of losing potential customers on a lower plan, when a subscriber goes for a higher plan must be taken into consideration when the costing of the product is done. We also have to remember that when subscribers go for higher speeds, the facility where he is connected to will also be able to accommodate lesser subscribers as the bandwidth he will consume goes up and thus lesser subscribers can be accommodated. This is the reason why we have a definite number of ports in a given facility as their available is dictated by the demand in the specific area. This is also the reason why when one subscribes to a higher speed, it is really taken to mean that you simply have to pay more. This is a very simplistic approach and this is how simple I can make it. It is more complicated than that, but this is the best I can do to make it more simple. And yes, the higher the bandwidth you want, the more facilities will Bayan need also to deliver it to you, and thus you should pay more.
In the analysis made by Pivan23, this is what is lacking. Thus, to say the pricing scheme and marketing done is greedy, is a little off key here as clearly he does not know what is taken into consideration when the pricing of a product is done. I have also clearly demonstrated in this very lengthy post that the new plans are more affordable and more cost effective as compared to the old plans. Further on, BayanDSL also balanced the pricing scheme it now has and I have also clearly explained why we cannot have a steady per kbps price across all speeds specially when an upgrade is done. No ISP company will actually have a steady per kbps pricing. All companies always they into consideration their overhead expenses and profit when it comes to their product pricing, and naturally also, all companies will make you pay more when you get a higher speed. Remember, bandwidth is finite, it is not freely available.
Sorry Pivan23, but I really found your comment here off key. Unless you can prove that the pricing scheme is greedy, we have to be very careful of what we post specially if we cannot justify why such pricing schemes are greedy. And clearly your post did not justify it.
Please note that I am not siding Bayan here nor do I represent their official opinion here. This is purely my own analysis, being a moderator of which I am entitled to provide specially if I do see a post that is off key if not appropriate. Pivan23's post failed to justify his claim but such posts have consequences if not properly understood by those who are reading it, and thus I make an attempt to explain it based on my understanding how ISP's operate to also help those who are noobs.pivan23 wrote:I think the new package higher than 1mbps is absurd, because look at the difference
768kbps is 899Pesos
While
1mbps for 999Pesos
We Just added 100 peso for adding 256kbps speed
while in
1.5mbps you'll spend 1499pesos for adding 512kbps don't you think the people should only add 200pesos? the marketing strategy here is very greedy
we should only add 200pesos for 512kbps. since 1mbps is the only line worth paying
 FLAMERS shall be severely sanctioned!!!
Please lang MATINONG TANONG LANG SANA ANG ITANONG instead of NONSENSE ONES. The Forum is NOT an Online Technical Support.
For your DSL/Phone concerns please call the hot lines FIRST before posting it in the Forum.
This includes requests for port resets, DSL connection footprints (ATT and SNRs), requests for technicians and repairs.
Please read the Bayan Forum Rules. If the post is in size 6 or big sized font, it means I am addressing you as a moderator. If the post is in the default size, it means I am Mikos the plain subscriber. Bayan Forum Rules
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Wow that was a very long response from you  it's not that I don't like bayantel anymore, My Bayantel this year was stable, and I can no longer find any problem, for 2years I suffered unstable connection, and finally bayantel found a way to fix my problem, I did how ever criticize the marketing strategy of bayantel, because I did base it on the fact that 899 and 999 is very near and has large speed difference, bayantel should atleast explain the benefits of upgrading to high level package, if they want more people to subscribe. your reply was the longest one I've ever encountered, it like that you are about to lose your mind protecting this company, well in anycase I understand, but seriously dude you should atleast concentrate on making your words simple and clear, you used to much english words that not all people in this forum can understand well anyway thanks for clearing it up for me. I shouldn't have said any words that would ruin the reputation of this company anyway. my fault :D wow a view of 3000
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pivan23 wrote:Wow that was a very long response from you it's not that I don't like bayantel anymore, My Bayantel this year was stable, and I can no longer find any problem, for 2years I suffered unstable connection, and finally bayantel found a way to fix my problem, I did how ever criticize the marketing strategy of bayantel, because I did base it on the fact that 899 and 999 is very near and has large speed difference, bayantel should atleast explain the benefits of upgrading to high level package, if they want more people to subscribe. your reply was the longest one I've ever encountered, it like that you are about to lose your mind protecting this company, well in anycase I understand, but seriously dude you should atleast concentrate on making your words simple and clear, you used to much english words that not all people in this forum can understand well anyway thanks for clearing it up for me. I shouldn't have said any words that would ruin the reputation of this company anyway. my fault :D wow a view of 3000 Sir even if you say any words that can ruin the reputation of this company, it still in the reader's if they will believe it. Just my 2 cents 
-- Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat--
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The response was long because the post you made was damaging. I could have deleted that post. But the problem is, it was already left untouched by anyone. I would understand why none of the moderators replied to it immediately since it was posted in the middle of the evening. Thus, the chance of it being read by many who may have visited the Forum, and the necessity to explain why it was that way.
As for the marketing strategy, to be honest with you, I could have been very academic about it. You made an over simplification with your criticism of the marketing strategy of BayanTel, thus the flawed analysis you made. I had to explain it so that it will be given justice. As I have stated, they are two different plans. I do not think there is a need to explain the justification of switching over as the advantages are moot and academic. I will again point out that Plan 899 belongs to different set from Plan 999. The only reason why it was still allowed was that there was a demand for it. The original intent there was to no longer offer the Plan 899. The pricing scheme there again should not be over simplified.pivan23 wrote:Wow that was a very long response from you it's not that I don't like bayantel anymore, My Bayantel this year was stable, and I can no longer find any problem, for 2years I suffered unstable connection, and finally bayantel found a way to fix my problem, I did how ever criticize the marketing strategy of bayantel, because I did base it on the fact that 899 and 999 is very near and has large speed difference, bayantel should atleast explain the benefits of upgrading to high level package, if they want more people to subscribe.
This is still short Pivan. Ask my fellow Moderators. They have seen longer replies coming from me. The post you made required it. It would be an injustice if I did not explain it, especially that it had been very damaging, and thus, I had to academically point out where the analysis was flawed.
I did not do this to defend the company. I am in no way required to defend them as I am not a part of the company nor do they pay me to do that. Please take note that I placed a disclaimer at the end of my post regarding my reply. I always believe in giving where credit is due. And this time, Bayan definitely did not deserve that comment. It is rather a moderator's endeavor to make sure that the posts in the Forum are corrected when necessary. I am used to making such long responses. It is not new to me. So do not be surprised. It is not really losing one's mind. I actually enjoyed it writing it. In fact, that post underwent 2 revisions. Posting something shorter would not justify it. I had to give the demand of your oversimplification. Remember, rectification is only justified if it is given explanation, specially in forums like this.
As for the words that I used, they are already simple. I am fully aware of the capabilities of the people in the Forum. Thus, I used words that I believe they can fathom and digest. They are well versed in many aspects as well as very good in troubleshooting. I am proud of our fellow Forumers. Thus, I give them what fits them in many of my responses as I believe they are all our equals and colleagues. I believe they deserve more than what people perceive them to be.23 wrote:your reply was the longest one I've ever encountered, it like that you are about to lose your mind protecting this company, well in anycase I understand, but seriously dude
you should atleast concentrate on making your words simple and clear, you used to much english words that not all people in this forum can understand
well anyway thanks for clearing it up for me. I shouldn't have said any words that would ruin the reputation of this company anyway. my fault :D wow a view of 3000
FLAMERS shall be severely sanctioned!!!
Please lang MATINONG TANONG LANG SANA ANG ITANONG instead of NONSENSE ONES. The Forum is NOT an Online Technical Support.
For your DSL/Phone concerns please call the hot lines FIRST before posting it in the Forum.
This includes requests for port resets, DSL connection footprints (ATT and SNRs), requests for technicians and repairs.
Please read the Bayan Forum Rules. If the post is in size 6 or big sized font, it means I am addressing you as a moderator. If the post is in the default size, it means I am Mikos the plain subscriber. Bayan Forum Rules
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nah it's my bad, I forgot my manners, I forgot that I shouldn't say anything when it isn't actually good, it's just I really hate the ISP in the Philippines because we pay to much for slow connections, and btw my problem in singapore server came back again. maybe it was karma haha
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What about upload speed? Is the Plan999's upload the same with 899?
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cloudscream wrote:What about upload speed? Is the Plan999's upload the same with 899? Sir we have no guaranteed upload speed. DSL is more on download in nature.
-- Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat--
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